mzmadmike ([info]mzmadmike) wrote,
  • Location: Office, where else?
  • Mood: pissed off
  • Music: Smoke, Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette--Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen

An Allegory

Let’s say I drink beer.  I have a beer when I wake up in the morning, a beer with breakfast, a beer in the car on my way to work, a beer at 10 am, a beer with lunch, a beer at 2 pm, a beer in the car on the way home, a beer with dinner, and a beer before bed.

 

Pretty much everyone would regard that as problem drinking, and my employer would bitch about time lost.

 

Let’s say I spit half the beer out, over my carpet, my car, the business’ floor, and on your clothes when you are around me.  It would stink and be nasty.

 

Let’s say I spilled my beer into your food, your drink.  It would probably piss you off.

 

If my boss, the people around me, and the people who were drinking my spillage objected, would it be fair for me to complain about them violating my “right” to drink?  I could switch to light beer.  That would be better, right?

 

Let’s say 80% of the population got fed up with this, and insisted I not spill beer or spit on people in public establishments.  I get together with 50 of my beer swillin buds, and bitch about our “rights” being violated, and that business owners have a “choice” to let us drink and spit and spill, and that we’ll stop going there if they don’t let us.  We tell people that we’re not forcing them to drink—except we are.  We tell people that it doesn’t affect them—except it does.  We tell them businesses have the right to choose either way—except we’ll throw a huge, alcoholic, whining tantrum if they don’t choose us.

 

Sounds fair, doesn’t it?  I mean, I LIKE to drink, spill and spit with my meal.  I have a RIGHT to do so.  Don’t I?

 

~~~

 

If you don’t see “Smoker” where I have “Drinker,” then go back and substitute now.

 

Yes, your smoke stinks.  Yes, it’s bad for everyone’s health, and lethal for some of us.  Yes, everyone around you DOES have to put up with your bodily waste.  Yes, it DOES get into clothes, hair, cars.  Yes, anyone with a normal, non-smoker nose can tell.  When my daughter walks in the front door from a friend’s house where the parents smoke, I can tell as soon as the air current shifts.  That’s because my nose works properly.

 

Yes, you’re an addict.  Get help.  I mean, really.  It’s not as if you’re getting enough buzz from that dosage to matter.  It’s just enough to keep you clutching for more.  It would be pitiable if it wasn’t pathetic.  I’ve tried Native American tobacco—that crap will put you on your ass, stoned.  I have a good cigar (well, about half of one) about once a year.  At one point I smoked, and I smoked a man’s cigarette—unfiltered Camels.  Then after a few years it became a pain in the ass, so I quit.  However, at no point did I ever insist I had a “right” to smoke, and I didn’t smoke any pansy filtered, “light” or “ultralights.”  If someone said, “Please don’t,” I didn’t.  I didn’t sneak into the bathroom, the elevator, under my desk or table, the back hallway or the closet (And you know this happens on a regular basis).

 

I have friends who insist that “most” smokers are polite.  They’re not.  When I worked at a place marked “no smoking,” it’s true that only an occasional asshole walked in with a lit smoke.  However, about half would take a huge drag outside the door, walk in, and exhale, apparently too stupid to grasp that EXHALING SMOKE IS SMOKING.  In places that are notably nonsmoking, including military installations, they’ll congregate right outside the door, sometimes standing IN the open door (Because if the door is open, it counts as outside, see?  No need to get cold or wet), with all the side smoke blowing inside.  I’ve even encountered a couple on forums insisting that as addicts, the ADA REQUIRES that I allow them to smoke.  (It doesn’t, FYI.)

 

Utter pathetic, contemptible ADDICTS.

 

Go outside and you’ll find butts all over the ground, and wrappers.  I’ve seen trailers catch on fire because some asshole flipped a cherry out the window in traffic.  There’s a reason they have no smoking signs in forest fire areas.

 

At one time, tobacco was a religious and ceremonial material.  Then it became a pub item, in pipes, with the intent of getting a nicotine high.

 

Then, as with cheap beer (like Buttwiper), someone found a way to package it into little convenient phallic symbols for morons to walk around sucking on, while usually denouncing the Freudian implications.  It was chemically made more addictive, and less potent—so you have to smoke more to get any effect.

 

At that point it became a pointless nuisance.  Your typical cigarette smoker would get sick from real tobacco—in a pipe or cigar—and has even gone along with laws and rules to ban the smoking of real tobacco, as long as they can get their fix.  And boy, do they need their fix.  Work has to come to halt, and 80% of the population has to be at least inconvenienced, if not endangered, so they can suck that little white phallus.  Oh, you’re on the ground having an asthma attack?  Well, I’m sorry, but this is about my RIGHT to smoke.  Oh, the concert hall doesn’t allow smoking?  But everyone knows people smoke at concerts.  If that’s a problem for you, maybe you should just not go to concerts, because rules, your health and lifestyle aside, you know, this is about my RIGHT to smoke.  That’s much more important.  Yes, I know it’s not allowed inside, but it’s cold or wet out there, and you know, I have this RIGHT.

 

Thing is, all along, beer produces its own residue.  And when that happens, the drinker goes to a little room in the back designated for the purpose, takes care of business, washes hands, and then returns, without complaining that not being allowed piss on the carpet, the food or the table violates their rights.  It takes a few minutes, it doesn’t bother anyone else, people hold their seat for them, and then they come back.  There, that wasn’t so hard, was it?

 

Designated smoking areas don’t work in restaurants.  If it’s near the door, the non-addicts have to walk through the haze, and if it’s at the back, an addict will have to choose between walking through and blowing waste all over the non-addicts, or putting the smoke out.  Guess which they’ll choose?

 

Side note:  If this is really about business owners having a “right” to allow smoking or not, we mustn’t stop there.  Surely a business owner has the right to not have fire extinguishers, not wash hands, not keep rats out of the kitchen, not have fire exits, not have handicapped ramps, not hire ugly chicks, not refrain from groping the hot chicks, and not to serve blacks.  Right?  Is this about the business owner’s rights?  Or about the “rights” of an addict to stuff drugs?

 

Given average military pay*, and deployed duty schedules, a smoke break every couple of hours for 30% of the deployed military (not total, just those deployed) is costing taxpayers $800,000 A DAY.  With 312 duty days in a year, that’s $250 million A YEAR.  Or, as of right now, $2.25 billion dollars, just in salaries paid for work not done since the current war started.  In the private sector, where breaks are more lenient, it must be incredibly more.

 

So, I should be able to take a beer break eight times a day, right?  Or a masturbation break?  Or maybe a heroin break?  IT HELPS ME STAY CALM!  IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD!  I HAVE A RIGHT!

 

You’re an addict.  Seek help.

~~~

 

*And speaking as a veteran, you have no business smoking in the military.  I can tell you from years of OPFOR, it destroys your night vision and sense of smell (I can get within FEET of a smoker in good darkness, undetected), and I can locate you up to 1000 yards away on a calm night.  Yes, really.  There’s an 8 hour bottle to throttle rule for alcohol for a reason, and marijuana is not allowed because the effects linger for days.  Same with tobacco.  Ignoring lungs, because they probably won’t wear out for a few years and you’ll be adequate physically, it does destroy your sense of smell and night vision.  That means your buddy’s ass is on the line for your addiction.  But that’s not important, is it?  YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO SMOKE!

 

You’re an addict.  Seek help.

If you're an addict, don't bother commenting, because you're unable to be rational regarding your addiction.

Everyone else knows I'm right.



 

Tags: assholes, politics

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  • 63 comments

[info]von_krag

April 30 2010, 05:09:22 UTC 2 years ago

I quit in 72, still miss it some time but not enough to EVER start again. Note I was a what's now a 2w--- so breaking clean & security to go smoke was a real pocking pain.

Anonymous

April 30 2010, 05:55:27 UTC 2 years ago

Snotty smokers

I work with an interesting little princess who smokes. According to HER version of the universe, her lung maladies are MY fault, not the fault of her smoking. Also, I get to pick up all her cigarrette butts from the parking lot (as she is too lazy to use the receptacles), because she has 'more important' things to do.

Oh, also according to her version of the universe, my jogging half a mile every day for exercise is 'unhealthy'.

[info]dracphelan

April 30 2010, 11:47:47 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Snotty smokers

Someone needs to smack her with a steel clue-by-four.

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]brownkitty

2 years ago

[info]wetdryvac

April 30 2010, 11:16:11 UTC 2 years ago

One of the nice things about the part of overseas I was in: Chain smoking hooligans announce their presence every 6-8 minutes - less in groups. Also, they can't run for crap, so breaking contact in-city was quite literally elementary. Few things cheered me more than watching grade-school kids taunting the gangers and reliably escaping via speed and confined spaces.

[info]sidial

April 30 2010, 12:08:45 UTC 2 years ago

What is even more amazing to me, is that there are those who use exactly the same justifications for marajuana. Because it's "safe" and "doesn't hurt anyone".

And bitch at me, because I'm allergic to the smoke. Gives me hives just walking past someone who has recently smoked or through smoke -- and I don't know about anyone else, but smoke looks like smoke to me, and I can't tell the difference by smell -- probably because my ability to smell is lost when, you know, I can't breathe through my nose because it's clogged up and swelling instantly. Bitch at me, because I have the gall to complain that, you know, if you're going to do something illegal, that 100 feet from the door rule applies to any smoking at all, too; what about a little bit of courtesy?

And it's somehow my responsibility to know ahead of time that those people who just got out of the same movie theatre as me are going to light up a joint, despite me not knowing who they are, the 25-30 feet away it takes (if I'm upwind) to recalculate my traveling path to avoid them. If I'm downwind, obviously I was supposed to know to go out the opposite side of the building.

Trust me, if my precognition worked that well, I'd be making millions.

[info]unix_jedi

April 30 2010, 16:26:44 UTC 2 years ago

Heh.

Someone I know used to get bitched out on a regular basis for his smoking (how it stunk, that it was aggrevating the complainers asthma), done away from the building at the park bench, by a guy who'd lean out a window (of the office) and smoke marijuana.

But that was "different" and didn't bother anybody, and was totally safe, unlike the cigarettes.

[info]sidial

2 years ago

[info]missingvolume

April 30 2010, 13:32:50 UTC 2 years ago

Just like there is no pee free zone in a pool. As I child I complained about the smoke in the car. I was told to stop complaining, now I get a retro apology from my now non smoking parents.
The breaks that smokers take are crazy and yet if you were to try it as a non smoker they would go insane.

[info]3fgburner

April 30 2010, 15:20:36 UTC 2 years ago

I quit smoking 3-1/2 months after I quit drinking. In my case, it wasn't any act of virtue. It was PAIN. Started with a chest cold that Friday. Went to a black powder shoot, on a cold rainy weekend. By Sunday PM, had bronchitis from hell. That night, it sucked worse to smoke than it did to quit, so I quit. And was unfit to live with for about 2 weeks. I'm not going to smoke again, because I don't EVER want to have to quit again.

[info]unix_jedi

April 30 2010, 16:23:30 UTC 2 years ago

Friend of mine worked at Circuit City (back the in the old days, but the slide downward had started at this point.)

So one day he was accosted on his way out of the department by his manager, why he was leaving his area. "Smoke break." "But you don't smoke!" "You don't know that." And he went and stood out on the loading dock with the smokers for 15 minutes.

Seems somehow, it wasn't right that HE took off 15 minutes every hour and a half...

(This was when he was quite often not allowed to take a lunch break, and getting a bathroom break took almost an act of god, since he was the only reliable person in his area. More than once I called him for lunch, was told that he couldn't leave, and brought him some fast food. Not once did his manager ever thank him for his attention, nor offer to get, much less _pay for_ his lunch as he covered the department solo...)

The "break rules" were discussed and covered and much more stringently enforced after the next all-hands meeting...

[info]sidial

April 30 2010, 18:33:27 UTC 2 years ago

Yeah. At my last job, the smokers got breaks every couple of hours -- more if the manager on the floor wanted a break. As a non-smoker, there were several days I didn't get to take a break of any kind at all.

Got fed up with it, about the time my weight peaked out at 245ish (at 5'2"), and I started taking my walking breaks.

My manager bitched at me for wanting my break. And I told him, "it's my version of a smoke break. Want to see me bitchy? Stop me from going."

It was one of the few times the man showed a trace of intelligence and left me alone on the subject all the way up until I left his team.

[info]rlg

2 years ago

[info]sidial

2 years ago

[info]s2la

May 1 2010, 00:47:53 UTC 2 years ago

The utter absurdity of smoking habits is evident at a hospital. It used to be that patients and families had to walk through a cloud of smoke to enter the hospital. Then the facilities went 100% tobacco free. Now you see doctors, nurses, staff, families, and sometimes patients, out on the sidewalk next to the street smoking (because it is city property, not hospital). Absurd is a patient in hospital gown, sitting in a wheelchair, with IV still attached, at curbside smoking.

My pet peeve has always been those who take one last drag and stub out the cigarette before getting on an elevator - then exhale on the elevator. Hey fella, you want to know how *I* feel when you contaminate the small enclosed space with limited oxygen? I can fit you with your own private smoking hood and concentrator. I'll bet you last less than 5 minutes.

Anonymous

May 2 2010, 21:55:32 UTC 2 years ago

Manners

Mr. Williamson,

Though you haven't come out and said "There oughta be a law!", many will take your observations to mean that. So let's be clear: this is not a Legal problem, but a problem of Manners.

Read through some of the many insightful 18th and 19th century "travelogues" written mostly by British authors and journalists in America. (In our defense, we Americans were probably too busy building a new nation to spend much time writing about it.)

Oftentimes these men of letters remarked with clear distaste the habits of the American tobacco user, who smokes and spits wherever he choses with no thought to the sensibilities or comfort of his fellow travelers.

Of course many of these same British gents smoked a pipe of tobacco on regular occasion.

In private.

This is of course why the "smoking jacket" was invented - an article of clothing one would wear, while smoking in private, so that one's clothing would not smell like smoke and thus offend the nose of others when one went out into public.

The problem isn't smoking tobacco or those who use it. The problem is a general lack of manners in our society.

[info]mzmadmike

May 3 2010, 02:31:58 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Manners

I oppose a law.

The whining about a "right" to injure others, combined with loud public tantrums (tantra?) when denied a drug fix, is most definitely a matter of manners, and why there is an over-reaction to legislate.

But let's be clear, as I noted, that this has NOTHING to do with smokers caring about business owners' rights, and EVERYTHING to do with them getting their fix. Whenever a business voluntarily goes non-smoking, they bitch loudly and stomp and scream.

A weak-willed, addicted, generally low-intelligence minority, is holding the majority hostage with foul tempers and manners. They have only themselves to blame for the resultant legislation. They're all or nothing people. They can't possibly have it all, so they're getting nothing.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]pjhandley

May 3 2010, 03:15:17 UTC 2 years ago

ok, yes, I'm an addict. Never denied it, ever. Actually smoke a LOT less than I used to, so making strides toward quitting.

On the other hand, didn't realize that the smoking was harming my night vision, which explains why it's harder for me to see at night.

[info]mzmadmike

May 3 2010, 03:19:18 UTC 2 years ago

Yeah, the nicotine reacts with some of the chemicals in the retina. I'm not sure if extra Vit A helps or not. Fat soluble vitamins can be overdone.

And you stand far enough from the door it's not a problem, which I appreciate. Thank you.

[info]kazriko

May 3 2010, 09:43:59 UTC 2 years ago

Yep, I agree with pretty much all of that. I'm not a fan of banning such things, mind... I think that people should be allowed to make their seedy bars and such smoking environments, as long as I never have to go anywhere near them. I'm actually OK with such dubious establishments only hiring other smokers as well, so as not to expose anyone else. Let them go stew in their own little self destructive communes and kill themselves as long as they hurt no one else.

[info]kazriko

May 3 2010, 09:46:04 UTC 2 years ago

(And yes, the property owner should be able to ban smoking with no recourse. If they don't like it, they can go start their own establishments. I'm for smoking segregation...)

[info]elmo_iscariot

May 4 2010, 13:23:20 UTC 2 years ago

I overwhelmingly agree with this post. Cigarettes are disgusting, and the sheer force of selfish entitlement it takes for a person who'd never dream of blasting Rammstein or masturbating in a restaurant to figure he has an inalienable right to light up in one is mind boggling.

But I have to disagree on the practical point:

Let’s say 80% of the population got fed up with this, and insisted I not spill beer or spit on people in public establishments.

If a property owner wants to open a beer-spitting club, I have no right to stop him. If he wants to open a restaurant themed around masturbation, or BYOStereo, or peeing on each other's legs, again, it's not my choice what he does with his property. Hell, with regard to your side note, if a property owner wants to open a restaurant themed around groping hot waiters--now with more rats!--I have zero right to stop him, provided the customers and staff are told what the deal is before they get involved with his business.

So I have to grudgingly oppose smoking bans on private property, even though they so dramatically benefit me. My pro-leg-peeing-club stance can't change just because leg-peeing clubs have gotten so popular it's hard to find a restaurant that doesn't allow leg-peeing.

If 80% of the population decides to boycott leg-peeing clubs and they start to represent only 20% of restaurants, mazel tov.

[info]mzmadmike

May 4 2010, 13:30:42 UTC 2 years ago

Agreed. What I object to is the spurious argument that smokers support business owners' rights to do what you've described. They don't. They ONLY support business owners having a "right" to allow addicts to feed their addiction, after the addicts scream and stamp and whine enough.

Again, 80% don't smoke. 20% do. What kind of business model pisses off 80% of the customers to appease 20%? Do non-smokers not drink? Of course they do.

But, addicts will make a lot more noise, without shame or concern.

I don't approve of government restrictions. However, just as the tobacco companies lied about their products and wound up getting gaffed, the addicts fought any kind of compromise until they brought trouble down on themselves.

Therefore, I will support a pissing bar long before I'll support a smoking bar. Fuck 'em.

Vegas gets around this by having enough ventilation that the smoke doesn't bother anyone--because they want to keep BOTH types of customers in the casino.

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

Anonymous

May 5 2010, 16:00:05 UTC 2 years ago

So uhhh somebody kept twisting your arm and forcing you to patronize those evil places that didn't ban smoking until the .gov forced them to? Ummmm'kay. I'll remind you of this when (y)our loving gov decides it doesn't like one of your oxen - and sooner or later they will.
And I'm not a smoker; never have been; didn't like the smell the wife's cigs used to leave on everything around us either.

I'd have a LOT more respect for the anti's position if they would just demand that the .gov just bans all tobacco products. Ooops, who's going to pay the BILLIONS in taxes that gets collected by all levels of gov, you and your non-smoking friends, heh, heh...
And please, don't start with the second hand smoke crap.

By the way I bought the wife one of those electonic nicotine delivery systems and life got a whole lot less smelly.

[info]mzmadmike

May 5 2010, 17:42:28 UTC 2 years ago

Now, why don't you go back and actually READ what I wrote?

And learn some basic economics while you're at it.

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

Anonymous

May 5 2010, 21:05:30 UTC 2 years ago

Government Bans

I am not in favor of government *bans* of any substance or product. For related reasons, I am not in favor of any forced government safety standards. The only place of the government, as regards products, is to first of all ensure that the information regarding the product is full and accurate, and secondly, to prosecute products which cause injury if and only if the information given regarding them is NOT full and accurate (which includes being defective, btw).

I can explain best what this means using a lawnmower analogy. I believe that it is the law nowadays that all lawnmowers MUST have a sort of safety lever on them that shuts the lawnmower off if you release it, thereby preventing idiots from turning the lawnmower over while it is running and sticking their hands in the blades. I think this is wrong, the law should not dictate that lawnmowers MUST have a safety lever. The law should only dictate that the advertisement and literature must be truthful regarding whether or not the lawnmower has a safety lever. If some pinhead chooses to buy a lawnmower without a safety lever, and then stick their hands in it while it is running, that is their own business.

The only grounds for prosecution regarding safety lever issues with lawnmowers should either be if a lawnmower manufacturer falsely claims that his lawnmower has a safety lever, when it actually does not, or if the lawnmower DOES have a safety lever, but it was made defectively in the factory, and fails to function in the way that it should.

Likewise, it is not the place of the government to ban cigarrettes or heroin, or to prevent cigarette manufacturers from adding 47 chemicals to cigarettes, or to prevent heroin dealers from cutting their heroin with Draino. It should be their job ONLY to ensure that the cigarette manufacturer and heroin dealer truthfully list everything they have added to their product, and the known effects of these substances.

And this truth in advertising, btw, specifically should also include the government. Providing false (or extremely misleading) information regarding how many 'children' are killed by guns each year, in order to try to convince people to adopt gun control legislation, or providing false information regarding the effectiveness of various birth control and prophylactic methods in order to try to convince people to adopt a particular sort of behavior (abstinence) favored by certain religious groups, should be a prosecutable offense. Both on the grounds of fraud, and also on the grounds of violating the constitution, since the first example is an infringement of the 2nd amendment RKBA, and the second example is a violation of the first amendment, in that since there is no possible argument against post-pubescent individuals having sex that is not ultimately religious in nature, the government should not be attempting to promote abstinence (via fraud), since by doing so they are taking a religious stance, which is specifically forbidden by the 1st amendment.

- Ann Morgan

[info]mzmadmike

May 5 2010, 21:12:26 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Government Bans

What I find amusing is fundamentalists supporting abstinence. How did that work out for Mary?

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

Anonymous

May 8 2010, 06:41:34 UTC 2 years ago

Let me see if I've got this straight

All smokers are thanatos-driven inconsiderate assholes who deserve every bit of the cancer they will no doubt get in just retribution for their incredible stupitity.
Okay, fine.
So now for me to enjoy one of theseven cigarettes per day I smoke,, I must now leave my cubicle, leave the floor, leave the building, and walk another 1/4 mile to the "designated smoking area". When I worked at Brown and Rootthat added up to a 1 and one-half mile round trip twice a day. No, that's not hyperbole, that's from actual counting steps, and backed up by GPS.

So that made me a less efficient employee? On that walk I passed not one not two but three empty rooms labeled "Smoking Lounge", with segregated air handlers and the whole nine yards.

Does this mean that I'm the better for the enforced three mile hike?

I'll I give you the answer is you'll join me in the smoking area, next to the exhaust vent for the boiler system, smelling of Diesel fumes, near the loading dock with the tractor trailers idling for literally hours as they wait for the next space to unload. Standing. In the rain. (No benches, no shelter.)

There, do you feel better now? I mean, in yourself.

[info]ktel60

May 8 2010, 06:52:06 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Let me see if I've got this straight

I don't post anonymous. Thought I still had a LiveJournal identity. I've relisted. Common courtesy and unwillingness to seem a dickhead. That was me with the same heading. You can find me in the parking lot if you want to fight.

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]ktel60

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]ktel60

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]ktel60

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]ktel60

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]mzmadmike

2 years ago

[info]jblaque

June 2 2010, 20:28:47 UTC 1 year ago

I'm a nicotine addict, and I think you're right on the mark.

Anonymous

August 17 2010, 22:28:43 UTC 1 year ago

Gotta agree.

I like it when I quit for a month or two, teeth don't feel so grungy in the morning, run a little easier, less crap in my pockets, little bit more money in the bank, hands don't stink, etc, etc.

Need to quit again. Sigh. What always gets me is going out on break with everybody else, and I bum a smoke without even thinking about it.

Need to check under my bed, maybe I left my willpower in one of my duffle bags.

Deleted comment

[info]mzmadmike

February 24 2011, 05:36:09 UTC 1 year ago

Re: purchase tory burch sale from online store

Fuck you, you spamming piece of shit.
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